dogon sirius debunked

New evidence deals a devastating blow to what was considered to be the best case for extraterrestrial visitation. -- in other words, no disproof would follow the failure of his prediction.). Ogotemmeli: An Introduction to Dogon Religious the Sirius "Mystery" by Ian Ridpath, Skeptical Inquirer, Fall MANY SKEPTICS WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT ONCE SOMETHING IS debunked, that will be the end of it. From the findings of Van Beek and the authors of Ancient Mysteries, it is clear that Griaule himself was responsible for the creation of a modern myth; one which, in retrospect, has created such an industry and near-religious belief that the scope and intensity of it can hardly be fathomed. The immunity of pseudoscientists to criticism is well known to skeptics, yet I was curious. This is a complicated issue, because several special interest groups each claim the Dogon for their own. to other visible stars near Sirius as recognition of the invisible [2][1] The book was first published by St. Martin's Press in 1976. Temple considers alternative possibilities other than alien contact, such as a very ancient, advanced, and lost civilization that was behind the sudden appearance of advanced civilization in both Egypt and Sumer. things. 7 0 obj good amount of discussion of Sirius in the scientific press in the '20s so Beings of this type would be a bit like mermaids and mermen. Perhaps the 'sirens' are, figuratively, a chorus of mermaids recalled from earlier times.They are called in Greek Seiren.It is There is, ), many debunked issues keep rising from the dead like vampires springing from their tombs. mystery resurfaces." But from whom? And this is what Mr. Oberg has done." "their purpose in disguising their secrets was to see that the secrets could survive.". The third explanation is that they learned the information from Europeans or in European schools. by Philip Coppens. space. Its second, 1998, edition is called The Sirius Mystery: New Scientific Evidence of Alien Contact 5,000 Years Ago. It is important to look at the assumptions and implications of the claims made about the Dogon. Perhaps the source was Temple According to Griaule and Readers of Skeptic are not so sanguine. The bad news is that the pseudoscience websites were in seventeen different languages. either in daily life or in ritual [to the Dogon]. "It does not!" Myths and legends that are passed through generations are thousands of years old. traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. himself and his loose speculations on what he learned from Griaule, who ", British astronomy popularizer fan Ridpath, writing in the quarterly Skeptical Inquirer (Fall 1978), blasted Temple's "brain-numbing excursions into Egyptology." sigui, held by the Dogon every sixty years. [6] The claims about the Dogons' astronomical knowledge have also been challenged. Using spherical trig, I got 612.3 km for the Siwa-Behdet leg and 654.8 km for the Thebes-Behdet. WebThe population numbers between 400,000 and 800,000.. . "Lecture 1st Carl Sagan agreed with Temple that the Dogon could not have acquired Could a remote African people have gained esoteric knowledge about the sky without having telescopes? "Nowhere in his 295 page book does Temple offer one specific statement from the Dogon to substantiate his ancient astronauts claim." (2004). Temples response to criticism has so far been evasive. The Dogon are believed to be of Egyptian decent and their astronomical lore goes back thousands of years to 3200 BC. It's fascinating. So where does this leave the mysteries of Sirius? The brightest star in the sky is Sirius, now called Sirius A. that by the time Griaule arrived, the Dogon may have had a grounding in 20th Finally, he asked me point-blank if I could point out any errors in it and partly out of politeness, partly to get rid of him, and partly because I had been able to read very little of the book so that the answer was true, I said I could not point out any errors. Modern astronomers have discovered the remains of the supernova Vela-X in a constellation which would have been visible in the low southern sky from Sumer. Many served in the French army in World War I and some of them could have returned years later with colorful embellishments for their native legends. Griaule and Dieterlen describe a world renovation ceremony, associated But it is an unfortunate tendency for certain reviewers to wish to try and appear clever at the expense of accuracy, honesty, objectivity, fairness, or even decent manners, by dropping any standards at all in their headlong assaults on authors using only the tools of distortion, dishonesty, and insults. It seems that Temples ideas are still popular among practitioners of pseudoarcheology, as well as with the general public. Either way, the original purity of the Dogon-Sirius story is itself a myth as it is highly likely that Griaule contaminated their knowledge with his own. They all have one thing in common: enormous monsters. The author mentions that he could have made the book much longer but restrained himself "lest I blow this book up into a pufball of miscellaneous odds and ends" -- which prompted one reviewer to remark that Temple had stopped much too late to avoid that fate. But even after hundreds of pages of myths and interpretations Temple fails to make a connection between ancient Egypt and the modern Dogons; instead he "assumes" it. The Dogon are believed to be of Egyptian decent and their astronomical lore goes back thousands of years to 3200 BC. Through the carbon dating of old ritual masks researchers have established the antiquity of the Segui ceremonies. Further, "The fact that the Dogon do not talk of another planet with rings beyond Saturn [i.e., Uranus, whose rings were discovered in 1977--and the rings of Jupiter weren't discovered until after Sagan's book was written, although they would have been clearly visible to any arriving extraterrestrial spacecraft] suggests to me that their informants were European, not extraterrestrial." He was told that fishlike creatures called the Nommo had come to Earth from Sirius to civilizes its people. African Observers of the Universe: The Sirius Question. In, Ortiz de Montellano, Bernard R. 1996. He shows a total ignorance or disregard for almost every fact in my book, and there is hardly a single thing in his review which is remotely accurate." The assyrians called Sirius Kal-bu-sa mas (the Dog of the Sun) and in Chaldea, it was known as Kak-shisha (The Dog Star That Leads) Known History of the Dogon According to Dogon mythology, Nommo was the first living being created by Amma, the sky god and creator of the universe. 30-31. But didn't Isaac Asimov check over the book for just such factual errors, as the publisher claims? The main problem with the alleged antiquity of the Dogon "Sirius secrets" legend is that they are reminiscent of European Sirius speculations of the late 1920s. Sagan, Also, why would the Dogan people not divulge where they received such recent knowledge of transfer if they had of gotten this knowledge from Europeans. The Skeptics Society is a non-profit, Sagan, Carl 1980. But it is apparent that Temple was not aware of Van Beeks devastating research. E. "Ancient Astronauts," in The Encyclopedia of the Schroder, D.J., et al. Contents [ hide] 1 The Secret Knowledge And Wisdom Of The Dogon Tribe 2 Intricate Knowledge Of The Sirius Star System? If a European had visited the Dogon in the 1920's and 1930's, conversation would likely have turned to astronomical matters, including Sirius, the brightest star in the sky and the center of Dogon mythology. WebThe population numbers between 400,000 and 800,000.. . ", Temple replied in Fate: "The pattern published in my book was drawn by a professional cartographer who earns his living by drawing reliable maps for an international corporation." But my own measurements, which scientific equipment, so how could they get this knowledge? Also if it was seeded by westerners how is the Dogon and surrounding tribes have a fully developed culture and religion structure centered around Sirius going back for hundreds of years? For instance, the anthropologist Walter Van Beek, who studied the Dogon after Griaule and Dieterlen, found no evidence that the Dogon considered Sirius to be a double star and/or that astronomy was particularly important in their belief system. There are innocent available explanations: typographical error or miscopied notes, for example. Our mysteries may be different but our questions are the same and we are no wiser. civilization. The star Sirius is certainly no stranger to mysteries. The Dogons were not isolated. In his 1998 revised edition, Temple was quick to point out the new discussions in scientific circles about the possible existence of Sirius C, which seemed to make Griaules claims even more spectacular and accurate. (OK, I'll bite--but if such a star is not discovered, Temple has risked no converse conclusions. The Dogon have a Especially those who believe that our past is not at all how mainstream historians believe it to be, or indeed, tell us it was. informed the Dogon of Sirius B or "he misinterpreted their references Astronomers Carl Sagan and Ian Ridpath, for example, have suggested that the modern astronomical aspects of the complex Dogon mythology entered the lore only recently, probably shortly before the myths were written down in the 1930s. Qr*OJhiglNKc}{9GdA Mlt^+nR-Sp-f.y-`Pg##uAQDu&W&HM~IK{%uAM'bRV A\Z.4gAHU*j,H( rPaf@)2j He points out that Griaule and Dieterlen stand alone in their claims about the Dogon secret knowledge. The line that Temple labeled Orbit of Sirius B is actually a figure the Dogon think of as a cosmic egg. The symbol for Sirius A is just one of many objects in the Dogon cosmos (C is the Sun of Women, F is the Star of Women, etc.). Legends of the Dogon Belief in a Long-Solved Mystery Resurfaces. He soon multiplied to become six pairs of twins. "Legends of the Dogon: belief in a long-solved It's almost certainly a hoax. History Debunked then goes on to demonstrate the type of pseudo-scientific nonsense this has lead to by providing a link to an Ethnomathematics paper and reading out its conclusion. The Sirius mystery, though, remains of great interest to many researchers today. And does the Dogon mythology ever really say that Nommo, the founder After being surprised that an astromomy association would, after all this time, bother to publish such an article, I did a web search and found that in 1997 Robert Temple published a second edition of the book that started it all TheSirius Mystery in which he addressed none of the main criticisms that had been directed against the first edition, published in 1976. The tribe has a periodic Sirius festival called the "Segui" ceremony; each celebration lasts several years (the last was in 1968-72.) Even in the most optimistic reading of this tale, the Dogon know no more than we knew about the Solar System and nearby stars in the 1930s, which is about the time that Griaule and Deiterlen first interacted with them. seem to have done little else than give the earthlings some useless by Philip Coppens. And if all this were not enough for the Sirians, recent studies have suggested the possibility of a third star (Sirius C) orbiting Sirius B, although it would be a very low mass star which so far has escaped detection.5 Stable planetary orbits may be very hard to find in the Sirian system. WebRe: Dogon Sirius claim debunked - Graham Hancock Official Website Mysteries Taken from [ library.thinkquest.org] According to the Dogon priests, Sirius is orbited by a tiny secret star that they refer to as 'po', which traces an elliptical path around Sirius taking 50 years to WebNew evidence deals a devastating blow to what was considered to be the best case for extraterrestrial visitation. He soon multiplied to become six pairs of twins. Zeta Reticuli 2 (with about the same temperature and mass as the Sun) is another candidate. Ridpath asserts. Clearly the Dogons (in common with many other cultures) were fascinated by Sirius, probably because its position in the sky was crucial to successful agriculture (it's the only star they have a name for.) Concludes Sagan, "There are too many loopholes, too many alternate explanations for such a myth to provide reliable evidence of past extraterrestrial contact. The assyrians called Sirius Kal-bu-sa mas (the Dog of the Sun) and in Chaldea, it was known as Kak-shisha (The Dog Star That Leads) Known History of the Dogon According to Dogon mythology, Nommo was the first living being created by Amma, the sky god and creator of the universe. Whatever their place in the search for extraterrestrial contact, the Dogon myths are certainly odd. [12] According to Oberg, the Dogons' astronomical information resembled the knowledge and speculations of late 1920s Europe, suggesting that the Dogon were influenced by European visitors before their mythology was recorded in the 1930s. Nevertheless the Sumerian Oannes myths, first described by Sagan and Shklovskiy in Intelligent Life in the Universe in 1966, are as intriguing as ever. For instance, the anthropologist Walter Van Beek, who studied the Dogon after Griaule and Dieterlen, found no evidence that the Dogon considered Sirius to be a double star and/or that astronomy was particularly important in their belief system. The Dogon and Sirius. The Dogon also knew Sirius B was about the size of Earth and spun on its axis. Griaule did not attempt to explain how the Dogon could know In 1965, Arthur Young gave Robert Temple a French article on the secret star lore of the Dogon, an article written by two French anthropologists Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen. The Pleiades are sometimes mentioned, but this is not possible. answer is that they got this information from amphibious aliens from outer knowledge of the satellites of Jupiter and rings of Saturn, among other e issued monthly by the Griffith Observatory in Los Angeles. On this episode of MonsterTalk we chat with archeologist Dr. Ken Feder about giants, biblical archeology and one of the biggest hoaxes in American history. This is true, but Sirius has about 25 times the luminosity of the Sun. Sirius B was known to exist then. WebNew evidence deals a devastating blow to what was considered to be the best case for extraterrestrial visitation. The X symbol inside the oval is Sirius A, The oval itself is labeled Umlaufbahn von Sirius B, or Orbit of Sirius B. Pretty convincing. The Nine also claim to be extraterrestrial beings from the star Sirius. ancient Egypt.*. WebAlso there is the fact that they described the Nommo as fish people and you find all kinds of half man/half fish - serpent imagery all over the Mediterranean. fifty years. Using similar techniques other writers have "discovered" dozens of different, often contradictory "ancient secrets" about Atlantis, primitive Christianity, forgotten wisdom, ancient visitors and numerous other things. This is strange, because one would think that it would be a major discovery in anthropology. What is interesting is that the Dogon knew about Sirius and its triple star system way before modern science found out its existence. Although he was an anthropologist, Griaule was keenly interested in astronomy and had studied it in Paris. <> But here's the rub: there is no archaeological evidence that the specific references to the twin hidden companions of Sirius are anywhere near that old. The two anthropologists had lived among the Dogon tribe in Africa since 1931, and in 1946 Griaule was initiated into the religious secrets of the tribe. If a European The Dogon and Sirius. Fishs map and Hills map look similar only because the lines connecting the stars look the same. Sirius figures prominently in the Dogon myths. The Dogon are supposed to have known that Sirius B orbits Sirius and that a complete orbit takes The book presents the hypothesis that the Dogon people of Mali, in West Africa, preserve a tradition of contact with intelligent extraterrestrial beings from the Sirius star system. Ancient astronauts entrepreneur Erich von Daniken endorses and adopts Temple's explanations in his latest book, Von Daniken's Proof. As James and Thorpe point out, he took star maps along with him on his field trips as a way of prompting his informants to divulge their knowledge of the stars. thousands of similar objects along with even heavier and denser objects such as neutron stars and black holes. Sirius You dont have to watch too many Fantasy Channel (formerly known as the History Channel) specials on ancient astronauts before youll be told about the primitive African Dogon of Mali and their advanced astronomical knowledge bestowed, of course, by extraterrestrials. But Sagan then finds both astronomical and mythological holes in the hypothesis. Liam McDaid is Astronomy Coordinator and Professor of Astronomy at Sacramento City College. They seem to have Also it would take a very good set of lenses to see Sirius B, which has an apparent magnitude of 8.44 and a separation from Sirius A of 10 arcseconds (0.3% of a 1 angle) under the best conditions. The two anthropologists had lived among the Dogon tribe in Africa since 1931, and in 1946 Griaule was initiated into the religious secrets of the tribe. This proves that geodetic surveys of immense accuracy were thus practiced in ancient Egypt with a knowledge of the earth as a spherical body in space and projections upon it envisaged as part of the Sirius lore.". But was anything left out? "The ancient peoples were not concealing information from us out of spite," he writes. So what is the alternative to the extraterrestrial hypothesis for the Dogon myths7 The Dogons could have learned of European Sirius lore in the 1920's from traders, explorers or missionaries, many of whom are avid amateur astronomers. WebNew evidence deals a devastating blow to what was considered to be the best case for extraterrestrial visitation. Read Skeptic on Apple or Android devices, or on PC or Mac via PocketMags.com. But other observers disagree. 68-70. Even if you allow for a much higher biological mutation rate on any Sirian planet compared to the Earth, it still isnt enough time. Inevitably one must ask, if the Dogons had heard good stories about Sirius from other sources, would they ignore them or would they quickly adopt them into their own cultural myths? Another claim: that in Egypt the oasis of Siwa and the ancient Nile City of Thebes are both equidistant from the shrine city of Behdet, in the delta -- and the same exact distance, too. The Dogon. Journalist and skeptic James Oberg collected claims concerning Dogon mythology in his 1982 book UFOs and Outer Space Mysteries. Indeed, in view of the Dogon fixation with Sirius it would surely be more surprising if they had not grafted on to their existing legend some new astronomical information gained from Europeans. This step was taken by others, particularly Temple, in the Sixties and Seventies. I certainly concur with the first of those sentences! More recent research suggests that the contaminator was Griaule himself. The Dogon people had been visited by European visitors many times, most notably when they hosted French astronomers looking to find a good vantage point to observe the solar eclipse of 1893. 2000. Paranormal, ed. (Photo by John and Keturah. All agree, however, that they learned about the star from Griaule. Van Beek states that this creates a major problem for Griaules claims. Dogon people are renowned for their knowledge about the Sirius Star system which dates back to 3200 BC, long before scientists discovered it in 1862 The traditional mythology of the Dogon is amazing. That's one major characteristic of classical pseudo-science, its ability to incorporate any result and its ability to be immune from disproof from any result. He also gives public talks on astronomy and related fringe topics to international audiences. Here, then, is another datum to be investigated when it is possible." Cook some soul food. But it seems that Griaule, a scientist, wanted to attribute to earlier civilisations more knowledge than they actually possessed. The antiquity of the Dogon astronomy is not so obvious as ancient astronaut enthusiasts claim but neither has it been disproved. The Dogons hold that Jupiter has four moons when in fact it has at least 12, plus a ring, as any true extraterrestrial would have known. One unproven aspect of the reported Dogon knowledge of the Sirius system is the assertion that the Dogon knew of another star in the Sirius system, Emme Ya, or "larger than Sirius B but lighter and dim in magnitude." E. "Ancient Astronauts," in, McDaid, Liam. star" (Sirius B) and describe its density and rotational Temple claims his expert cartographer found these distances "nearly equal." Investigating WebThe Dogon understanding of astronomy was comparatively modern but has several known misconceptions - it entirely lines up with the European understanding as of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, before the discovery of relativity. I disagree. The second problem is that ancient writers seemed to use color for stars in a way different from the way that we do (they described Pollux, Arcturus, and Capella as red a modern observer would call them yellow-orange, orange, and yellow, respectively). Other ancient astronomical records make no mention of Sirius being red. Why would Europeans feel compelled that they needed to discuss astronomy with such a primitive tribe and why would this transfer of knowledge that only lasted 5 weeks have such an impact on the Dogan people that they would include it in their cultural practices? On top of that, there is another star, Sirius B, orbiting at an average distance of about 20 AU (1 AU is the distance between the Earth and Sun). by Liam McDaid. MANY SKEPTICS WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT ONCE SOMETHING IS debunked, that will be the end of it. The Dogon also hold a big sigui ceremony every 60 years, which some interpret as representing the period of time it takes Sirius B to go around Sirius A. Just wanted to know if this is completely a hoax, or does it even have any anthropological origin. Scientists learn that the Dogon do not possess secret knowledge about the star Sirius and its companions. Press J to jump to the feed. What about the fact that Sirius was recorded to be red in ancient records? The introduction to his second edition is so full of paranoid theorizing,2 that although it is quoted extensively and interpolated with favorable comments by Michael Bara (or possibly Richard Hoagland), the most extreme conspiracy claims are omitted.3. 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